"Creativity in general is pretty weird, I think. Most things are weird. Everything is weird."
This episode was recorded in Minot, ND during the weekend of Why Not Fest 8 in 2017.
The following is a computer-generated transcript, and it's terrible, sorry!
00:00:00 That's true. Yeah. So I love doing this when it's somebody I've never fucking met at all. It's like the strangest thing, uh, come into my life and just, uh, tell me about everything, you know? Yeah. It's uh, it's really fun. It makes me super nervous, but it's really quite, dude. I'm nervous. I'd never done a podcast before. Nice. So Nice. Actually, actually Andrew and I had the drummer did one one time, but it was a tiny little thing and it was like 15 minutes and. Oh, cool. Cool. Just surface stuff, you know. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Nice. Um, so, uh, yeah, like the, the extent of my knowledge of, of you, um, is like, uh, you play in floods. Uh, you're the guitarist, vocalist, right? Um, main vocalist. Yep. Okay, nice. Um, are you have a beautiful voice?
00:01:00 You, let's see, uh, you guys have a record and like an ep? Yep. Um, and uh, you're from Minneapolis and I think you know Zach and Jazmine? Yes. Yep. Yeah, we just listened to that episode on the way. Actually the latest one. Did you listen to the fucked up one or the one that was corrected? Was there an intro on it? Uh, yeah. No, I don't think so. Actually I didn't realize what was fucked up about. Um, was there a. was there a long gap of silence at the beginning after the intro music? Um, I don't remember that. I think it would like. I mean, how long were you talking? Did you hear? Uh, like four minutes maybe? Yeah. No, no, that definitely. No. So maybe there was an intro and maybe I just didn't. Did you, did you hear my poem about getting thrown off a bridge?
00:01:54 Yes. Okay, good. Thank God. Did you write that? Yeah, that was awesome. You that. Did that really happen? Literally throw me off a bridge. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you never know me. I was just, it was a feeling I had those, you know, when you're feeling bummed out and you're somebody to just destroy, you were saying all lyrics aren't literal. Not Following A. Yeah, I, right before I was leaving town I was like trying to get that up and like the first time I put it up and then I like, I published it and I downloaded it on my own iphone and I was like, oh fuck. I put up like a reference version that had like, like a minute of silence at the beginning. Yeah, like an idiot. Yeah. So whatever shit happens man. Um, cool. Well, uh, are you, are you guys tutoring or are you just out here for you or. Yeah, yeah, we're touring, we're on the final stretch. Thank God. Um, it's been like,
00:03:00 let's see, we started last, so it's been a week now. Today's Friday. It's been eight days. Nice. Where did you go? Uh, we went, our first stop was in Denver. Cool. So that was a long drive from Minneapolis. We cut it a little bit by staying at the other guitar player, Danes, cousins, or step? No step aunt and uncle's house in Marshalltown, Iowa. Okay. So that like chopped off like three hours. So it was like a 10 hour drive the next day, but God. And that was a. yeah, it was kind of a shorter. How is Denver Denver's awesome. Correlate two nights. Their first release in this house show. That was pretty, pretty cool. Where'd you play? Was like, who, who would you play with? I wonder if you know anybody that I know ghost pulse was the main band in those were I think both of the guys in that band lived in that house.
00:03:54 Okay. So I, I don't know if it's like a big house, but it seems like, I mean like a big show house, but they do, they do it pretty regularly. It seems like they had a whole, like their basement was all cleared out and everything. Yes. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, it was cool. Um, do you know like Amos or evan callous or. No, I don't. I don't know many people in Denver besides my brother used to live in Denver, so I know some, some people. I'm like, every time I hear about Denver, like music or like diy scene, I'm like, how the fuck is it? So big? Yeah, it seems awesome. Yeah, I haven't, I haven't been there or like Ben to shows there a like for a long time, but yeah, yeah, it seems really cool. Yeah, it is, it's, it's a really cool city.
00:04:38 Nice. Nice. Yeah, so we did that and then the next night we played at Lyons layer in Denver. Okay. Which is kind of like a divey bar, but it's kind of like a, it's been around for like 40 years and it's kind of like a rite of passage type of thing to play in that bar, you know, and a lot of big names in played there I guess. It's nice. So that was pretty cool. Played with this band rowboat. I don't know if you've ever heard. They're awesome. They're good name. Yeah. And this other band simulators, they were both both awesome and awesome people too, so that was a great way to start it off. Cool. [inaudible]. Cool. So you just meant like around like Midwest Kinda. Well after dinner we went to Belize and is fucking cool. Like Boise. Yeah. And that's like a 12 hour drive.
00:05:25 So and, and we know we didn't gain an hour. Yeah. So that's what, especially brutal, but so we were gonna leave at like 5:00 AM or something in the show. Got over like, you know, like one or something. So we're like, Oh God, do we want to just go and sleep for like three hours and then get up and go or should we just go, God. So we just went then at one. So I took the first one, I am to 5:00 AM shift. So that was interesting for 12 hours from 1:00 AM until 10 pf. Yeah. Yeah, I think we, I think we rolled in there like 1:30 or two PM. Scary. It was scary. Especially like driving out in the, out in the Wilderness essentially, you know, when it's like, like the dude the drummer was sleeping in the back and then the guitar player was up, uh, in the passenger seat, but he was, he was pretty, he was drifting in and out.
00:06:18 So it was pretty much me for awhile. So that was from one to 5:00 AM. Yeah. I've watched. How'd you come up and set? So really? Yeah. How'd you not fall asleep and day? Uh, we listened to a lot of standup in the beginning. It's like we listened to American stand up. Cool. Yeah. Dana had never heard any mayor in standup and it was like old, like $2,000 angsty Marin and you know, I mean, not that he's still on ac but like more where he's screaming at the crowd, kind of, you know, in days like I don't know about this guy. Yeah. Yeah. So that. And then I listened to some NPR podcasts, I think. Nice. Give you a cool. Cool. There's something, there's something about the, like the uh, there's something kind of joyous and like life affirming about the horrors of like late night drives and like the, the, like challenges of tour that are just like, why the fuck am I doing this to myself?
00:07:13 Yeah, exactly. Especially when the roads, it wasn't just like a straight shot, you know, that you're going through the mountains and it's like all like windy and everything. I'm like, I think I'm going to die out here. Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. There's some crazy crazy fucking drives. And then you're like all tired and you get all this paranoid. Yup. You know, like what if, what if our car breaks down and you know, like, yeah, like turns into some kind of murder. Yeah, totally. Yeah. That's good. That's good. Shit. Cool. So you went to boise and then like. Yeah. And we went to Boise and played at this place called the shredder, which was super cool. Totally. Have you, you've heard of that? I've heard of that. Yeah. Yeah. Like I tried to get a gig there once and then didn't happen. Alright. Yeah it was, it was interesting because it was a Sunday night and so there was no one there, you know, and it apparently there were like six shows going on right around there.
00:08:01 Like taking back Sunday was like 20, like 200 yards away from us apparently. And I didn't even know how are still like doing stuff, but yeah, that's kind of amazing. Yeah. Yeah. No. So it was mostly just the other bands in the audience, but it was still fun. It was, the sound was good and everything. So yeah. Yeah. We played with this other band called a DFM K and they're from Tijuana or like a ton of punk band. Nice. It was really, really cool. That sounds fucking sweet. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. So then from Boise we went to Portland and Andrew's brother lives in Portland, so we went and hung out with him for awhile. And then um, played at the twilight cafe in Portland, in Portland, Oregon. Yeah. Jesus, that's a lot of driving for all. Yeah, we're fucking week. Yeah, we're about, I think we're at like 3,900 miles or something already.
00:09:00 Yeah, that's pretty mind blowing. Nicely. Yeah. Uh, um. Why, why did you, why did you do such a, like quick, like long drive boiler originally? Well we all have full time jobs, you know, so we can't really take that much time and we don't want to blow all of our vacation on tour. So we try to do is like, I'm the least amount of vacation time hit I guess. But um, so it's only like we only had to take six days off. Nice. And we wanted to get out to the west coast. Yeah, it is cool. And they, both Dana and Andrew had never been to Portland or Seattle, so. Oh cool. Did you play Seattle too? Yeah, yeah. Then we went to Seattle the next time, the next night, but we actually had, we had a show booked at the fun house in Seattle. Oh cool.
00:09:53 Okay. And um, it was, well originally we were going to tour it with two bands. This other band called pleasure wounds. Nice. That's another minneapolis band and the drummer in pleasure wounds was used to be the basis and our, you know, cool. Okay. But because of some extenuating circumstances you couldn't come on tour with us. So then that band couldn't tour either, obviously. Oh, sure, sure. So we originally had two bands and I'm, the promoter was like, well I'll just take care of the local bands to, for the other slots. But he messaged us while we were in Portland and it was like, Yo man, I can't find any bands to play. So unless you guys can like, find some, you know, the show's not going to happen. And he a great promoter and he, well he said the reason he gave was a Metallica is internal that night, so I messaged like 40 plus bands and you know, they're all going to see him in the show and we're like, okay dude, you're good.
00:10:57 That's your excuse to come on. And so, so. So we scrambled and tried to message a bunch of bands and seriously I kid you not like three of them responded, no dude with Metallica node. So I guess like metallica shuts down the entire city of Seattle, which is crazy. Like for, especially for 2017. That's ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. But then we ended up getting the show at, um, I'm blanking on the name of a substation substation, which is apparently a pretty new venue in Seattle. And that was, we just ended up jumping on the bill and it was, it was a great show too. So yeah, we're really glad we got to play in Seattle. And then we went to Bozeman. Cool. And played a house show there last night. Nice. Who'd you play with in Bozeman? Um, played with a, I can't remember the name of the first band, but this, the other band was one guy doing increase except Taylor Taylor mccardell was pretty solid.
00:11:59 It was, it was a real, it was probably the best show we've ever played. It was nice. It was like a dedicated basement like there was, there were no, there was no carpet, there were no, like, like beds pushed away or anything, you know, it was like, like they're trying to like make it a venue kind of Nice. Like they had monitors which is like on her house. Yeah. It was just really, really fun. It was, it was probably our funniest show on tour. So far so nice. Yeah. Nice. You don't. So then we drove from Bozeman this morning and here. That's cool. Cool man. That's great. Um, and so you guys aren't Minneapolis man? Yup. Are you, are you from Minneapolis originally or. No? No, I'm originally from Sioux falls. Nice. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cool. So I moved up for college and stayed here ever since.
00:12:46 Are there ever since is in Minneapolis? I always get a fucking Sioux falls and Sioux city mixed up Sioux falls. I know. I'm an city city, South Dakota. All right. No, it's the opposite. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Sioux city is Iowa. Yeah. You're from South Dakota? Yes. Okay. Yeah, so city, I don't know if you've ever been there. The whole town just smells like garbage. It smells. It doesn't smell like meat. Yeah. They have a meat packing plant or something. Yeah. That's just the. Had to live with that all the time. I mean, they're obviously worse things in the world, but the where you can't breathe, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, okay. So you went to, you moved to Minneapolis for. For College? Yep. Nice. Where'd you go for college? I went to Hamlin. Yeah. It seems like any school. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was nice.
00:13:47 It was kind of like, if I could do it again, I probably would have went to the Uw University of Minnesota. Yeah, I went there. Sucked. Really? Yeah. Well I went there and then I dropped out, but APP, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it's, it's good, but it sucks. Yeah. I don't like school. So yeah. I'm uh, what'd you, what'd you study? Physics. Physics. Nice. Yeah. Is Is, uh, so you said you have a full time gig. Isn't physics related? Uh, no, I, well I went to school for physics and then I didn't really know what I wanted to do. Okay. Well originally I wanted to be a professor, then I realized like in junior year or something how much work it is to be a good professor and sure, you know, yeah, I didn't want to be like one of those shitty male in professors. So I was like well if I'm going to do this is going to be my entire life.
00:14:34 So I was like, I don't really want it. I don't love it that much, you know. So I was like, well God, what am I going to do now? Because physics is kind of like a, it's like a pre Grad school degree basically, you know. Interesting. It's Kinda like a, like a whatever you in Undergrad, whatever you said studying undergrad before you like get an an md, you know, it's Kinda like a or a pre law major kind of like that. Like it's like you come out and you don't have any real practical skills like you can like oh that's really interesting. Yeah, there's like that sort of stigma around like uh, like arts degrees, you know, like English or music or anything like that work it will be like, well you're not getting a real degree because you can't get hired. Yeah. And why would you do that?
00:15:20 And which is a whole fucked up thing, but it's a extra fucked up to think about like a science degree being essentially the same vibe. Yeah. Yeah. It's blows. Yeah. I mean I might be exaggerating it a little bit but you're not going to get like a really good career out of just a bachelors in physics. Sure. Like there are other like chemistry or biology you can get like a real, a real career out of just having that degree. Physics is kind of unique in that. What, um, why did you go that direction? Physics? Um, I think, I don't know, I really, I took ap physics in high school and I just really loved it. Nice. It was like the first subject that I like really, really got into and like couldn't stop thinking about it all the time. So, and Nice. And I'm one of the, the chair of the department I interviewed with him, met him on, but when I was checking out schools and he was just like the coolest person I've ever met.
00:16:25 So I was like, I should go here and study this, but yeah. So then after that I was like, ah, what am I going to do? Um, so I went to the u, uh, for mechanical engineering. Oh really? Yeah, just to get a grad degree, a masters. So I got that and I was an engineer for awhile. Oh cool. Okay. Yeah. And then I was like, I don't really like this. So. So then I went to like this little, uh, I don't know if you've ever heard of these software development boot camp type things. Yeah, it's like three months full time. I'm training essentially, so now I did that in a web developer. Really? Wow. That's fucking fascinating. That's a real, uh, like, uh, just like an interesting path that like you wouldn't expect, right? Yeah. Yeah. And in hindsight it's like a big waste of money, but that school, yeah. Yeah. I know. Six years worth of school and then. And then what your real job ends up being, you learned in three months, you know, so. Yeah. But whatever. Wow. Huh. Are you working? Are you working for a company? Are you freelance? Yeah, I, um, I worked for this company called a one slash 20. Nice. It's uh, we primarily make apps for truckers, truckers, which has been an interesting like mindset
00:17:50 for me as I'm driving this far. I'm like, dude, I could never be a tracker, but what do they need? What a trucker's need apps. Well, yeah, there are primary APP is basically like Google for truckers, right? You have like navigation, like truck safe navigation, you know, because if you use Google maps to direct your truck, like all, like 90 percent of the time you can't drive their truck. Wow. Okay. So the charters have to buy all these really interesting Nav Systems and everything, so we have an APP that does that for free and. Oh, and then also like gives them places to stop on the way and deals and all this stuff. And then we have other apps that do other things for. But it's all trucking related somehow. Cool. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Nice. And you're working, you're doing like codeship. Yep. Cool. Yeah.
00:18:41 That's fun. Yeah, it is fun. Yeah, I like that a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, it's a building things, you know, it's fun. There's like a, an attraction to that. It's kind of weird with the Internet because, I mean, I feel this way about music too. Um, it's sort of just vapor, you know, like people are, are using it are like looking at it or whatever, but like it's like it exists in this nonphysical realm. Yeah. That's like, it makes it different from like building like a bridge. Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. Somehow, uh, the into the intangibility of it is like slightly disturbing. Yeah, no, totally. Yeah, yeah, totally is. I mean, it was like write a whole application and you don't put it in anywhere besides your group on your computer and your computer blows up and it's gone forever, you know? Yeah, totally.
00:19:34 Yeah, totally. Yeah, it's weird, Huh? Fuck. Cool. So, um, so you've been in Minneapolis for a while? Yeah, since 2007. Nice. Cool. Sioux falls. Sioux falls. Okay, cool. What is Sioux falls like or like what was growing up? They're like, oh, it's. Did you, did you play in bands and shit? Well, I, I played in my church band. I played drums in church band for a long time. That's actually what really got me into music. Cool. Yeah. I mean I was in band and stuff and like, sure I'm entering middle school, you know, but what really got me into like, music was playing drums in the church band. Nice. Nice. So you started as a drummer? Yeah. Fuck yeah. He has the best way to start. I started as a drummer when I was like 10. Nice. And everyone should start, I think as a, as playing drums, percussion, at least you get that rhythmic foundation. Yeah. Yeah, and then everything else can come after. Nice. Yup. Cool. Uh, but that was like your primary, like musical, uh, like outlet was drumming in church bands and stuff. Yup. And then I bought a guitar when I was like 16
00:20:47 or something and just go from what it around on that because I've heard that. Uh, when did, when did you start playing drums? And I started playing like a full trap set or whatever. Yeah, when I was like 11 or something. Cool, cool. Yeah. And then like there was this other guy who was playing drums and then he went to, he went off to college in my church and I was like, then they needed a new drummer and they just, I guess I got recruited to do it. Nice. Yeah. So I kind of learned on the job, which was really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fucking cool guitar. How did, why did, why did you have? Mostly probably because I wanted to do something with melody, you know, for sure. It's just noise. It's really. Yeah. Yeah, because I mean you can play drums by yourself, but like it's pretty boring, you know, unless you're playing with like music in your headphones or something.
00:21:42 I kind of got to that point too when I was like probably roughly the same age of just like a wow, there's really only so much I can do and as an artistic expression when I'm just playing drums alone. Yeah, exactly. Kind of like just that feeling of needing something more, which yeah. So you kind of have you. That was sort of your thing too. Yup. Yup. So then I, I bought a guitar that I still have today and so played a Tele and oh nice. Just, I don't know, just farted around for awhile and I didn't get very good for a long time. I didn't really have a good practice. Practice ethic. Yeah, I still don't. Yeah, well I don't either but yeah. So I just, yeah, I just, I didn't really play that much until college when I moved up there it didn't really know anybody and it was in my room a lot.
00:22:37 So then I started playing a lot more. Oh really? Cool. Cool. Um, and like when did you start writing songs and ship? Uh, I did write some songs when I was in high school, but they were all like, I just actually found a lyric sheet when I went back home over a couple of months ago and you know, God, that's brutal reading those old lyrics, you know, they're just sappy and like, do you remember any of them? Give me some, um, what kind of topics? Mostly just like stuff about my girlfriend at the time and uh, it was, I don't know, just all this like low waxing poetic about her kind of cheesy rhymes and you know, Nice. I don't, I don't remember any lyrics. I wish I did but I don't. Yeah. So that's probably where I started. That's where it, when I wrote first songs, but.
00:23:28 Cool. Cool. So you were singing them to you, would you, would you sing to her? Yeah, you know, if I would like sit down, I wrote the song for you. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't do that yet. That's good. Sweet. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah, she was, she's probably the only one who heard a bunch of those songs actually. So. Nice. What was her reaction? She liked him a lot, or at least that's what she told me. That is so good. Yeah. Nothing like being a teenager and writing songs for a girl. Like specifically. Yeah. Yeah, I know, I know. It is weird when you're like, I can't imagine doing that now, but that would be really weird.
00:24:15 Yeah, it's great though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just pure, pure, pure love. Yeah. Yup. Pure, unadulterated emotion. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, I'm nice. So okay. So that's how you started writing songs and shit. Yup. Nice. Yeah. And then, like I said, when I got to college I didn't know anybody and I'm a pretty big introvert so I'm not like going out of my way to introduce myself to anybody site a lot of alone time, you know, so I started and I was, you know, I missed a lot of friends and everything so she was kind of feeling, you know, down quite a bit and I had just broken up with that girlfriend from high school, you know, like right before college will move, you know, so it was all mopey and whatnot. But. So then I started writing more songs then. And Yeah, I started playing open mics and stuff.
00:25:11 Cool. And then eventually, um, recruited or met some people at school, um, and kind of basically recruited them to play my songs with me, you know. Nice. So we did that for awhile and then that kind of fizzled out and just like, um, like as, as a band or just like open mic, just whatever as a band. Nice. What, what name it was called dress the dress. The fool. Nice. That's a, an apple seed casts lyric. Oh really? Cast that was really big into them in college. Cool. Cool. What was that your first band like a outside of like playing in like church, the or cool. Yeah, it was, it was really cool to. That was the first time I had like played with people, you know, when I'm playing guitar. Oh cool. Nice. So that was really cool. And your, what pride? Like 18.
00:26:06 19. Yep. Yup. Yeah, it was, what does that, what did that feel like a, it felt kind of surreal, you know, because I was most of the songs I played by myself for a long time and then when you add a band it just gets, it's so much different. It's just so full and you don't have to like I was used to being like the only instrument, you know and like if I fuck up, that's it, you know it's there, but if you fuck up with a band, you know, they can cover a lot of that stuff. So it's much more forgiving, forgiving, and I'm kind of freeing in a way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Were you like a trio quartet? A quartet? Yeah. Nice. Typical, you know, two guitars, bass drums. Cool. Cool. Um, and you would just, you would play out at like what kind of, what kind of shows would you play?
00:26:57 I'm just like pretty much anything we could get. Just a little little venues we played at this place called eclipse records in Minneapolis or St Paul actually, but that doesn't exist anymore. That was kind of a cool event. He was like a record store and they had a stage in the back quite a few times. Um, and we played some like stupid, uh, they're like, I don't know if you've seen all these band recruiters and the recruiters were they like contact you and they're like, oh, we gotta show lined up for you if you can guarantee you're going to sell 25 tickets through your pre sell them, you know. So we, we did that like once or twice and that's terrible because you just got to like whore yourself out to your friends, you know? And that sounds really bad but I mean we didn't really know anybody or really know how to get shows.
00:27:48 So yeah, I'm sure we could have found a lot more if we actually like tried. Sure. Didn't do like how shows or anything? No, no, no we didn't. Well we did, we did play a couple of house ask shows like we played it, the Bass player's stepdads church one time, which was really weird because it wasn't like Christian music or anything, you know, and it's Kinda like, it was like dark lyrics and stuff like that, like a, like a potluck. So it's like all these older people. And I was like, oh, this doesn't fit really. But we did a couple like Tom Petty covers and stuff. So I think they are already have been like Tom Petty and the church. Right. What, what kind of band was up? I was kind of like fulkey. Okay. Like I mostly played acoustic. Everyone saw I electric, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:45 Uh, Bismarck, um, there was always this, uh, like when I was growing up in Bismarck, there was always this a weird intersection of like church music and like Screamo oh yeah. So the thing that you're. Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, because I, like, I was pretty involved in the church when I was doing that, so I knew all about that kind of seen, like, like under oath esque type of stuff is actually. Sure. Yeah. Like, yeah, it was always kind of kind of, what were they Christian Christians? Screamo yeah. I wonder if it was, huh? Yeah, I was sort of on the periphery of, that wasn't something I really dove into, but yeah, I was big into Christian music as a, like high school or mostly because I was kind of forced into it, but it was kinda like a, you know, secular music was kind of like frowned upon really my family.
00:29:42 Yeah, yeah. What? Oh yeah, there are some exceptions, but yeah, it was, it was, it was like a fundamentalist church. So. Oh Wow. Yeah, it was like, like evangelical. Sure. So it was, how was uh, how was that? It was not good. I mean, I didn't know any different at the time, but looking back at it, um, I mean it definitely like changed it. I changed a lot when I went to college and um, how so? Well, I mean I stopped believing in God, you know, really, and yeah, started listening to real music and I feel like I feel like, I don't know if, you know father John Misty at all a little bit, but his or his story, but his story is pretty similar to mine really. What is that? It's like, I mean he is more dramatic than mine, but he grew up in a very fundamentalist house too and the whole secular music is frowned upon.
00:30:40 Thing was very alive in his life too. And that is so bizarre to me. Yeah. Yeah. So he was like, you know, when I got into college I felt like I had to play catch up on all these bands. Like I've never really never listened to the Beatles, you know, and all this fundamental stuff, you know, where and what. I mean, I knew some of the Beatles, you know, like the, the big ones, but like a dude and whatnot. But the secular music was so frowned upon that you didn't listen to the Beatles. Yeah. Well, I mean it was like made. You're made to feel guilty really listening to that kind of stuff, you know, because it's like for me, eating your brain and you can't control it, you know, it's putting the, the, the thoughts and yes. So interesting because the Beatles to me, I mean, like seem.
00:31:21 I mean they're there. They, they had that whole thing with uh, being bigger than God pissed off a lot of Christians. But like there's. So they're all about love. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. I'm not saying it's not excellent. Yeah, I know it is. It is surreal to look back at it. Wow. Huh? Yeah, yeah. That's fascinating. I, I don't really understand that in the slightest. I remember going to those Christian Screamo screamo shows in Bismarck a few times and just like the, the different culture of it was just like palpable. Like I'm like praying before the band played and then it's like this just very like screaming. Yeah. Band and like just uh, just not understanding it and also feeling really out of place. But like, yeah. And then like they do like the slow song where they like say a bunch of crazy shit.
00:32:27 Yeah it was like a church service, you know, like come on, you know? Totally. And Yeah. Uh, I mean and some of it is kinda like Kinda cool. I mean at least from like an sense of like this is a, of, of a vibrant culture in itself, you know, but it's beyond my realm of understanding for sure. No, I totally believe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's, it's boggling to me now. So yeah. Huh. Been so far removed from it now. But wow. So you went to college and he said he stopped believing in God and what actually did it for me was taking it. I was a religion minor mostly because. Huh? I could like, I really was still interested in it. Yeah. And I mostly just studied like Judeo Christian texts and everything, but the first intro to Judaism is really what started the whole landslide of I'm losing my faith or whatever you want to call it. But it was just like, you know, examining the texts and texts and like how they're formed, how they came to be and the history behind them and like examining, examining them in that light as opposed to a like looking at them as the truth and you know, given by God, you know, sure. That really like changed the way that I looked at all of it. And I'm like, wow, this was all like made up.
00:34:00 And I'm taking physics classes at the same time. So I'm like, all right, you know, a lot of this stuff doesn't make any sense. I have some questions. And then I started listening to this guy. I don't know if you've ever heard of the band Pedro, the lion. I don't know if I've ever listened to them, but I have friends and like in high school and shit that really like, yeah. So David is like the front man of the main person behind that band and he's doing his solo stuff now, which is really good too. But um, he, they started off as kind of like a Christian band, but he was always like kind of pushing the envelope, like he would swear in his songs and that was really controversial, you know, and like they wouldn't put his records and Christian music stores anymore after he started swearing and what a rebel. Yeah, I know, but he was still, he still identified as a Christian for a long time, but then he started losing his faith and it was like very public and he made a whole album about it and stuff. And I was listening to that at the same time I was losing mine. So that really, like I really related to hardcore to that. So that was definitely a good or a big influence.
00:35:06 Nice. Huh. Um, you know, thinking about like you losing your faith. I get at a university, like there's, I mean there's this sort of like anti institution anti, like higher education, a stigma in like fundamentalist Christian groups. It's very alive and it's, it's Kinda funny [inaudible] like, I mean, your story is like, kind of like the poster child. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. No, they, I mean they want you to remain ignorant and you know, so I mean, I'm obviously generalizing, but. Sure. But yeah, it's, I mean if you can't shared beliefs, can't stand up to education and scientific facts then I mean, come on. Sure. So I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense to me. Um, so do you, how do you identify religiously now? I'm, I'm, I would call myself an atheist I think. Yeah. Yeah. So just full blown rejected all of it.
00:36:22 Yeah. I mean I'm not like, I don't know that there's not a god obviously. Right? Yeah. I'm, there could be, I don't know, but I don't see any evidence for it and sure. And that's all I know, you know, all I, I just think that there's the universe and that's pretty much it. Yeah. But I mean, who really knows, right? Yeah. I feel pretty much the same way, you know? Uh, I mean like on a technical sense, it's like, oh yeah, I guess I'm an agnostic because like maybe. Yeah, but like that maybe is so fucking small it feels like follows to be like, yeah, I'm agnostic and atheist. I don't believe that there is a god, there could be, but I don't believe that there is one. Sure, sure. Um, how, how's that, how's that going for you? For like, I grew up basically as an ics.
00:37:13 I've never really had any. Um, I never really had any religious period in my life and it's hard, like just floating alone in the universe. Oh yeah, I know. So like as you're losing your faith, are you also like, is there a certain terror to that? Oh yeah. No, no, totally. Yeah. I mean one of the big things was, and I still have it to this day was just the idea that, you know, I'm just horribly wrong and I'm going to burn in hell for it because the idea of hell, it was like drilled into my head in like when I was growing up. Totally. That's got to be hard to let go of. Yeah, and it, it still every once in a while I get that lot. Yeah. And it's been like 10 years for me now. So you still get that. Felt like what happens when you, when you get that thought, like just that, you know, get, get terrified that I'm wrong and I'm going to pay the ultimate price for it, you know, and that.
00:38:17 Yeah. So like if I died today, you know, like going to hell, man, what, what is hell even mean to you? Uh, I don't really know. I mean there's a bunch of definitions of it or interpretations of it in the Bible are in Christian thought, but it's mostly like, to me it's just being completely alone for the rest of eternity, you know, and they're married may or may not be like some sort of like physical punishment or something. But sure, that physical punishment kind of is still, it's always there in my head, but it's mostly like the being alone thing and existing alone for the rest of eternity, which would be terrible in my mind.
00:39:06 I'm just a overwhelmingly terrified by the, by the abyss. Yeah. You know? Yeah, so to me the idea of like being alone and in pain [inaudible] sounds better than like what I think is gonna happen, you know what I mean? Yeah. What do you, what do you mean by the abyss then? Um, it's just over and I don't even know that it's over. I just lose conscious.
00:39:37 See, that's the less terrifying to me because I feel like that's how it was before I was here, you know? Yeah. And I don't think, I mean if it is nothing then you're not gonna you're not gonna know. Right. So it's just, I, I mean I, I just think it's just going to be like a light, you know, switching off alike. But are you, are you afraid of that light switch? You're not. So, I mean yeah, to a certain extent I can't really explain why I am, but yeah, I have that. I definitely have that fear. Yeah. But yeah, I think it's pretty natural to have that fear. But what can you do, you know, I mean, so then after I like lost all the religious stuff, I went kind of into philosophy really. Okay. Like what kind of philosophy? Well, like existentialism, witnesses. Really? Yeah.
00:40:30 A big thing I like can't move a lot. Hell yeah. Did you read, uh, what, what have you read this? Um,
00:40:38 the. I read the Stranger and you read the myth, the myth of sisyphus. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was the first one I've written. That one blew my mind.
00:40:46 Yeah. That book is like one of the most, uh, defining texts of my life for sure. Yeah. No, that's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Say like saved me in a lot of ways. Yeah. I mean from feeling like everything is entirely useless. Yeah. Because it's like a. because it's so clear eyed. It's like, yeah, everything is meaningless, but you know, we're here and we can do some shit. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I mean
00:41:20 it made me one positive thing about losing my religion was it made me value my life here much more. Really good. Yeah. Because I always had like this idea, you know, like this life doesn't really matter. It's a temporary resting stop on the way to heaven or eternal real life. Yeah. No, I know. Oh my God. Yeah.
00:41:40 The idea that like there's probably a lot of people that feel that I know that is pissing their lives away. Yeah. And then I mean, you don't
00:41:50 like think about all the things you can rationalize if you believe that you're just going to go to heaven, you know? Yeah. Wow. Like what, like nuclear war doesn't matter, you know, climate change doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Yeah. Oh my God,
00:42:06 that's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. I have, I have such mixed feelings about religion because on its face I think it's just like this incredibly wonderful, beautiful human thing and it's, it's awesome that people like have these, a vibrant worlds that they've created, like as, as a culture and like A. Yeah. It's like in a certain sense that's just, it's just unbelievably cool. Yeah. And then, and then there's like this negative aspect of it that is like just so destructive.
00:42:41 Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That's really weird. Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel the same way about it. I still am really interested in it and I, I appreciate the beauty from afar, but yeah, once it's applied in real life and you start taking it seriously, like it's literal fact, I think you can get into trouble pretty quickly. Yeah. [inaudible] Huh?
00:43:08 Yeah. But my uh, so that, that had happened and then my, my dad was the most religious out of my family. Like my mom was kind of religious but not really. Um, and so that was obviously terrifying for me to tell have that conversation with him and that actually didn't happen until probably three or four years ago. But um, yeah, he's just accepted it and really yet still, he still loves me and just lets me make my own decisions, which is the best thing possible. Like that's awesome. Like father John Misty had the, like he got the bad side of that is he got ostracized from his family. He hasn't talked to his parents for like 20 years and yeah. So that could have easily happened and I'm very grateful that it didn't. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Huh.
00:44:04 So you're, uh, you're living in Minneapolis. Yup. You're going to school, you're playing in, what was the name of the band? Dressed the fool. Cool it losing your religion and a already on repeat dress the fool. Uh, how long did that band live? Um,
00:44:27 probably a couple of years maybe there was, there was, there were two records, but ideally, yeah, I did the tire, like I played all the instruments. What mine is based on the first one. A nice. Yeah. I mean it was mostly because I didn't know anybody in the beginning. I wasn't trained with them when I was writing all the songs, so I just did it all myself. Yeah. But um, in hindsight that is now in a good way to start a band because then you tell them what to play, you know, and that's not fun. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Totally. So then it became kind of like me and the rest of them, you know, and it just wasn't a good vibe and I don't know. Okay. We kind of all were just over it and it just kind of fizzled out. Sure. So it was probably like a year and a half, two years maybe.
00:45:14 Call, how did you make those records? Did you regard them yourself or some someplace? No, I went to the studio in Sioux falls that I can't remember the name of now, but it was one of my friends in high school had recorded. He was in like this pop punk band that recorded there and um, see just recommended that him and I just recorded their over, you know, a couple of days, just did all the tracks and. Yeah. Huh. That's cool. Nice. It was an experience. Um, I'm assuming digital. Yeah. Cool. So you went in and just like recorded drums and then layered on top of it? Yup. Nice. Good for you man. Thank you. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean it's like not necessarily the most fun thing to do, but like some good initiative. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, like commitment to like, uh, like fuck yeah, I'm gonna make this record.
00:46:11 Yeah. Yeah. It is cool when you hear a song that it's all just, you know. Yeah, it is kind of cool. Totally. But that's the other good thing. But starting with drums, you know. Yeah. Um, I think it's easier to be like a one person band for sure. And you served with when you start with drums. Yeah. Um, but you said you did two records as. Yeah, I mean one of the first one was an, so it was like six or seven songs I think. And then the second one had like 12, so I think. Nice. Yeah. But they were like pretty close to each other. I think it made both of them within like six months of each other. So I was just kind of pounding out songs at that time in my life. So. Nice. What were you writing about? Um, it was mostly, I mean it was early college and I was, like I said really like lonely.
00:47:02 So it was all that kind of stuff and well some of that kind of stuff and I had gotten, I'm obsessed with like kind of like storytelling songs that ended up like, really? Yeah, that are kind of like saying, you know, fucked up in some sort of way. Like there's, there's some kind of murder or infidelity or something like that, you know. So, so you were, you were telling like sort of a, I mean there's this, there's this thing between like people being sort of diaristic and like telling their own stories and their songs. Yeah. And then like the, uh, like the more sort of literature fiction, um, third person and, and you kind of went that way with. Yeah, it was like kind of me just like expressing my anger just through stories of people that are just made up, you know? That's awesome.
00:47:58 Yeah. It's usually kind of like first person, like I'm the other person and totally kind of just like ripped that off from David's because that's really all the time in the interesting. And Pedro the lion and that's cool. I feel like that's pretty rare for, um, for people that are right in that kind of way. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think so too. And it, yeah, it always is kind of weird because then you have all these people that think that you're reading about you, you know, and they're like, dude, you're kind of an asshole, you know, like cheating on your girlfriend, you know, like, Oh yeah, will you think I'd really like murdered somebody in this other song? You know? Nice.
00:48:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's good though. I like, I like hearing shit like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Me Too. Do you still write that way? No, not really. Oh yeah, I meet. Well not, not exclusively, no. There are a couple songs that are kind of like that. Okay. I'm like, one of the songs on, um, drew on the first record for floods is called drains. That one is kind of loosely based on the Austin Texas clock tower shooter. Oh yeah. And like, I heard this story about a, it was on npr or radio lab or something where, uh, they're reading his diaries and it was all like his diaries were like, filled with all these, like, like, uh, like he was writing about how he can't control his thoughts and he's like, wow, wants, he has all these like thoughts of like murdering his family and his wife, his wife and kids and just a bunch of people and he can't control it.
00:49:42 Like he doesn't want to do it, but just like present themselves to him. He doesn't feel in control of his own mind. Yeah. And apparently he was telling this all due to psychologists, you know, and Whoa, wow. Which is like, you know, red flag. But, and obviously we know that that turned out in the worst way possible. But I just had that, like that whole thing about like not being able to control your own mind is, was really, um, yeah, totally fascinating to me. Totally [inaudible]. So that's an example of, you know, I kind of like co opt in, like I'm kind of like the person in that song a little bit. Sure. But, but others, most of the other stuff is that, that song is like sort of from the perspective of that shooter. Wow.
00:50:28 Yeah. That sounds hard. Yeah. Yeah. It was like sounds a,
00:50:35 I don't know how I would
00:50:37 even began to think about doing something like that. Yeah. I don't know, it just Kinda came to me. That's how songs kind of worked for me. They just get like a lyric just randomly in my head and I'll write it down and then just build on that. You said you usually start with with lyrics? Yeah, it, it really varies. Yeah. Sometimes sometimes I start with like a guitar riff or something and then. And then I just write lyrics to it, but it, it goes both ways. It used to be primarily these lyrics that would start everything but not so much anymore. Used to be like you would write the lyrics and then you would figure out why the melody or. Yeah. Would those go hand in hand? Kinda, yeah, I mean I'd really, usually I'd have like a line or a phrase. Sure. And then I'd just like start trying to come up with a little bit of music and then I'd build the rest of the lyrics from like the melodies that I was starting to get, you know? So I build around that first phrase. Yeah. Nice. I don't think I've ever written out a whole song lyrically before I've done music. Oh, okay. Huh. But I have done the opposite, like written out a whole thing on guitar and then I put lyrics on it. I always find that that's like ridiculously difficult. Which one? Like if, if, uh, um, like if I have the music for something and I want to put vocals on it, I'm just like,
00:52:13 it somehow. I don't know, it just seems something about it seemed, makes everything seem trapped, you know? Yeah, no, I know what you mean. Yeah. So how do you typically, I'm assuming you write songs. Yeah. I don't know what the fuck. I do know I, I know what you're talking. So I'm so fucking weird. It is, it can start with like this little thing and then like slowly build over a long ass time for like little different parts, whether it's like lyric or a melody or like a, some sort of instrumentation or it can be just like, oh, I have all these fucking lyrics in like 30 minutes. And then like not changing anything, you know? Yeah, I don't. It's, it's very confusing. Yeah, it is. And like this is, this is one of those spots where my atheism is like a comes into question because like I've, I've had sort of weird experiences where I felt like, um, like when I was a teenager there was this, there was a song where that I wrote were a, like I was sitting in a room and I thought I heard somebody whisper my name and it was just like I was taking.
00:53:32 It felt like all of a sudden I was like legitimately like possessed by like a, like a ghost. And like within, um, you know, 20 minutes I had this whole song that I didn't change after the fact at all and I didn't understand what it meant. Yeah. And like a, you know, I mean it's like, it's, it's probably just like my subconscious, like just completely taken over. Yeah. But like a
00:54:03 so weird feeling. Yeah. Yeah. That reminds me of like, I heard this interview with Bob Dylan and he said pretty much that same thing where he's like, feels like he's being like, his hand is being guided by somebody else. You know, like he would have to be like wake up in the middle of the night and just like write down an entire song. You know, you know Bob Dylan is a liar though. That's true. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I guess I believe that. And in some ways, yeah, I mean I've, I've woke up with like not in the middle of the night but in the morning sometimes with like some, not a whole song, but some thing, you know. Yeah.
00:54:44 Yeah. It's very weird. Yeah. Well, I mean like there's also like the whole dream thing. I've gotten some lyrics from dreams I heard. I don't know if you've ever listened to the WTF with conor oberst. He talks about, I don't know how much bright eyes you ever listened to, but a little bit that song lime tree that's on that one sound on cassidy again, I think uh, he dreamt that entire song run the tour bus, like woke up, wrote the lyrics and then the progression and everything and that's crazy, you know. And then like that, like that whole thing
00:55:23 I think I feel like people get a little bit too caught up in like this feeling of like inspiration sometimes. Like it's sort of mythologized like that, like just any sort of any sort and it happens. It's real. But like um, the other, the other aspect of that is like a, like as musicians, like this is what we're always doing. Like a where you like train are like music muscles all the time. Yep. And like I feel like that like working on those muscles like lets those moments happen, you know? Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say something that I'm blanking on now, but I think it's kind of like similar to I imagine how like a standup comedian, like people are always like, where do you get all the ideas for your jokes from? It's like, well, all they do is just observe. It depends on the type of standup. Put all of them who do like observe observation comedy,
00:56:24 you know, they're just looking at normal, normal, weird things that happen on a daily basis and just they just actually write them down and like later, like examine how ridiculous they are. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I think it's kind of a similar way. Like we're, we're always looking out for inspiration. Ways to be inspired. Oh, what I was going to say is it's not always like that though. You know, I've sat at my computer like trying to type out lyrics and just hit a wall, you know, just have to like just sit there and just like stew in it for awhile and then finally something will come up. But it's not. Sometimes it flows really easily and sometimes it's a real chore.
00:57:07 Do you, do you do stuff like, like free writing or like I'm taking, uh, taking, like, not like thinking about like observational stuff. Um, I mean I, I, I do, I do a lot of like, look, I've, I've, for the last, like three or four years, I've like Google docs for like every month that I go like, that. All right. In just like, it might be a line, it might be a couple of things. It might be like a song title and then like I'll go back and pick things out. Do you do anything?
00:57:39 Yeah, I'm not really. I've been, I've been meaning to like, I don't know if you know Damion Gerardo is. No, he's um, he's a singer of singer songwriter from Seattle. But um, he said that he does a lot of like dreaming, journaling. Like he'll, as soon as he wakes up every morning he forces himself to free write and that's how he comes up with a totally crazy totally. And I've been meaning to do that for a long time, but that's like you got to just force yourself to do it I guess, but yeah, totally. Yeah. But I don't really do any journaling or anything, I just kinda like every once in a while I'll just be driving or doing something else and just like little little lines will come to me and I'll just like, you know, John, I'm down in my google keep or something and then nice work on them later. Nice. And you do sometimes go back and like take that idea and like flush it out. Yeah. And a lot of times I take a bunch of different ideas that I've had over long periods of time. Just kind of put them together. Yeah,
00:58:41 I love like the, uh, I mean, you know, there's all these different like song writing styles and this sort of like farming, you know, I think that as like farming kind of like a, just slowly super slowly building things up. Yeah. I'm, I'm very fond of it. I mean, I love the feeling of inspiration that comes where you just get a whole fucking thing. But like I'm like, I've literally like the last, the last like punk record that I made. I uh, I had just this huge pile of like lyrics and it didn't matter so much. I'm like, a lot of it was very like collage, just, you know, um, so it didn't matter so much what it would end up being against, like, so not like thematic things necessarily. Some of them became thematic but it didn't start out with like, this song is going to be about this and I literally like had this like a basically like spreadsheet of different lines and like went through and figured out like the last, the last line I would figure out like it's a vowel. Yeah. And I know exactly what you're saying. Yeah. And then just like go through and like just collage all these fucking things together and like, uh, it was uh, it was in the experiment, worked in some ways and didn't work in other ways, but like, I don't know, there's something fun about like just
01:00:12 this sort of collage, like slapping things together and seeing what sticks, you know. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. You know, songwriting is, it's mysterious. Yeah, it is. It is weird. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. Creativity in general is pretty weird, I think.
01:00:32 Totally. Most things are weird. Everything is weird. Everything. Yeah, everything is definitely there. Um, so songs, songs that you're writing now, um, you're not really doing that third person stuff that much anymore. Not as much or more kind of like, each song doesn't really have a concrete meaning. It's more kind of broad existential kind of sure stuff. I don't really know how to describe it. Um, and you're, and you're like reacting to things that are happening to. Yeah. Um, I mean on a was 1880, I'm the alternative facts. Oh yeah. So I mean, yeah, that's like, you know, like obvious Kellyanne conway reference, but um, yeah, but the lyrics in that or like a, something about a gas mask, right? Uh, the last gasp. Yeah, that was kind of. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I was listening to that like a, um, a few times. And like at first I thought it was gas mask and uh, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I realized I was miscarrying it, but like the, uh, I was appreciating the like, um, uh, the like the misheard with the sea, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you're, you're doing this thing now too where like, it seems like a where you'll a have lines that you repeat a bunch [inaudible]
01:02:12 like the sort of incantation aspect of that is like kind of heavy, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, do you have an
01:02:20 example? I'm not to put you on the spot. I don't know if. I don't know if I can pick one of your lyrics out that I've, that I've been thinking about that you've been doing that with, but um, but you do it on, you do it on the, on 1880 [inaudible] where like you'll have a line or two and like you'll repeat them a few times. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Um, yeah, I think there's, maybe they're in that song causeway. There's the main course. It's just like blurry and tired. And I say, Oh yeah, yeah, totally, totally. Yeah. I don't know when I started doing that kind of stuff, but it was probably because for a long time it was really hard for me to write choruses. Oh sure. And I would just mostly write songs where the course wouldn't be the same every time, you know, like there was a definitely of course musically but not lyrically.
01:03:13 So like the lyrics were always different throughout the entire song. But then I don't know, I kind of get away from that because I felt like that's less of a less easy to relate to for most people. Like people want something that, you know, you can, if you want something that's gonna stick in somebody's head, you know, if you're really just doing a whole, you know, it's different throughout the entire song. That's kind of hard for people to latch onto. But. So I started trying to write courses and the easiest way is just to repeat yourself. Right. So Nice. Nice. Yeah. Cool. Um, when did, when did flood start also did, was there a band between floods known the. No, no. In between that I, I did some open mics and stuff. And did some stuff on my own and they're like, like, just recorded some stuff in my house.
01:04:11 Okay. Um, so to wrote songs, but he didn't really play with anybody else or anything cetera. Yeah, flood started about two years ago now. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Yeah. So you guys have been at it for a while? Yeah. Yeah, we were here in my night last year. Oh cool. I was here briefly and then disappeared in my mind. Kinda broke last year. Oh yeah. Really? Yeah. Why? Uh, I guess like Agoraphobia Kinda. Oh yeah. Yeah. Right on. Yeah, something like that. And it's just like I cannot, I cannot be around people right now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I know that feeling, but probably not to the extent that you do, but yeah. I don't know. It was weird. It was really weird. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a lot of, a lot of weird baggage around things, so really. Yeah, I mean we all do, but yeah. Yeah.
01:05:07 Um, but, but that's cool. This is your second time out to. Might not. What was it like for you last year here? I love wine. I might not, it's just fucking unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's very cool. We were all very surprised that there was a vibrant scene in Minot, North Dakota, you know, like we pull in and it's like go through like the military base and everything. I'm like, what are the hell are we, you know? Yeah, yeah, totally. And it's like way the hell up in North Dakota, you know, like, and so we didn't really know what to expect, but we're pleasantly surprised. It was, it was great. We played like a really early slot, like we played the 5:30 set or something on Friday. So, um, there was, there weren't many people there, but it was awesome. We got free food and just get out, you know, but then I had to drive back the next morning, which kind of sucked, but I think like a wedding or something, but yeah.
01:06:06 But yeah, we went with another band, um, that uh, the guy who used to play bass in floods is also in that band. And the guy who plays guitar currently in floods is also her, was in that band. The asp bastards have more door. I remember, I remember seeing that name, which is probably one of the best names ever. They, they want some context in the, in the twin cities for like best name or something. But Oh my God, I don't even, I don't know what that means. Yeah. Yeah. Me Either. And they play kind of like, you know, like black Sabbath type stuff that's fit in. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's what you imagined it would be nice to them. So that was really fun. We just all hung out together and it was our first day kind of like tour or like a road road gig. Yeah. Has Flood Insurance. So that was fun. We stopped in grand forks before the night before. Oh Yada. Yeah. Yeah. With dogma, Dogma. Name on earth. Yeah. Yup. That's good shit up there. We're playing there tomorrow. Yeah. Nice. Jeremy is for sure is. Yeah. Yeah. He's a great. That crew there is. Yeah. That's good. That's good. Yeah. Nice. So uh, floods like you've done, you did a record. He didn't eat pea. Yup.
01:07:38 a what? I don't know, like being, being in bands like means different things to different people, you know what I mean? Yeah.
01:07:47 I'm like,
01:07:50 you know, like some people are like super obsessed with it and like it's Kinda like their whole life
01:07:54 [inaudible]. Um,
01:07:58 and some people it's just like, yeah, it's this thing I do and I love it. But like, and it, where do you, where do you fit on that spectrum? Probably more towards the ladder. Oh really? Yeah. It's not, I wouldn't call it my whole life. Um, I definitely don't, like, I'm not, I don't think any of us in the US in the band or trying to make this our entire career. I'm sure like if a, like for like something happened and we'd like blew up or something, we would probably, I'm sure we would all do it, but we're not like, we all have jobs and I'm like careers, you know, so we're not trying to make this our entire lives and I don't, I can't imagine trying to do that right now anyways, the way things are. No kidding. Yeah. I mean like on this tour, I mean we were like super pumped because the second night we got like 200 bucks, you know?
01:08:58 Yeah. So it says everything, I think. Totally. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Um, so why do you do it? Uh, I, I mean, I do it because I love the music and I love playing music. I like, it's like a really, it's an emotional release and I think, um, it, yeah, it be poor. Most of my emotions into writing songs. I think I'm not a very emotional person. Sure. I'm in day to day life, but in songwriting I definitely am, like most of them are like, if it doesn't make me feel anything, I'm usually not interested in it. So Nice. She's like, yeah, I feel like that's like a, that's like, that's like a songwriter thing, you know, of like there's some part of us that like, uh, just needs to express something and just count, like talk it out with somebody, you know? Yeah. Like there's like this thing that, uh, was like inexpressible or like, um, you know, we're too like a shy or something, you know, to really deal with in any other way.
01:10:28 It's Kinda, it's Kinda lucky in some ways, like on both ends. Like, like I'm glad I can kinda like, I'm Kinda glad I can't express myself fully without like, you know, making stuff like songs. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think yeah, we're people who can write songs and are of that same ilk are probably lucky because you have an outlet at least you know, that are. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have similar personalities but have no way to really express it and that would, that would be bad feel trapped, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. So
01:11:13 I'm very thankful that I do have a way to at least get something out, you know? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I've, um, I don't know if this was something you would relate to, but like I've had periods of my life where, especially around my first attempt at college going to the university where I, part of me kind of wanted to just kind of run away from, from music and like that, um, like really felt like having like a certain part of me like cut off. Yeah. You know, like this like ability or like this limb that's like gone. Yeah. And like, uh, I think it really fucked with my, like mental health. Yeah. Yeah, I imagine. Do you have any, like, did you ever try to like not do it or has it just been consistently like since you were pretty young, like you've been rockin and Rollin? Uh, no.
01:12:25 Um, it hasn't been that consistent. I mean there's been times when I've just stopped for awhile. I don't know if I did it on purpose, it kind of kind of just happened. Sure. Um, but usually something will happen that spurs me back into it. Like, it's usually like some kind of dark period in my life that like gets me back into the songwriting. I'm nice thing, you know, like I like when you need it, you reach for it. Like it's, that's awesome. It is, it's difficult, at least for me to, it has been in the past at least. It's kind of changed now. But it used to be like really hard for me to write songs when I was happy and uh, but I think that's changed a little bit lately. But yeah.
01:13:19 Hm. Um, is there, is there anything religious about, uh, like you're not, is there anything religious, but is there anything that, like the, the experience of like a religion either as an individual or as a community, is there, is there, like any, uh, anything comparable in terms of like music community or like um, I mean like I don't know, uh, like is, is your relationship like with your creative self in any way similar to like, um, your relationship with like, like an inner sort of like faith or like any, anything like that? Is there any like overlap in that?
01:14:15 Um, maybe I haven't really thought about that before, but yeah, that, I mean that kind of makes sense. I think, I mean one of the things that also was mind blowing to me when I was moving away from the whole religious thing was when I started writing songs and playing like more, you know, not just my high school and stuff, but like real songs and playing with other people. I would get like the same feelings that I got when I was playing in my church band. Like in like the worship and interested in. I was like interesting. I guess like most like maybe a big chunk of what I thought was actually like connection to God was just music, you know? Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. So that was so, I mean there's definitely like a, a kind of a relationship there. So I've kind of just like, yeah, yeah, I guess I have replaced my, like faith or religion with just, just the bare music now. So Nice.
01:15:19 I've always, uh, and I don't even know what this means to me, but I've always felt like there's something sacred about music. Yeah. No, I do do it, just like, it's, it's like on this other level. Yeah. It's just so weird when you think about it too, like it is. What is it? It is super weird. Like why there are these rules that everybody like accepts. Totally. Totally.
01:15:42 And it's just, yeah, it's just really, really weird. It doesn't like where, where does it come from?
01:15:51 Why does it exist? Why does it exist evolutionarily, you know, like. Right, right. What is the purpose? Yeah. Yeah. Um, I got like a little bit obsessed with like um, you know, like dark ages a like religious music and like Gregorian chant and like all that shit for awhile. Yeah. Because there's just something. So I'm weirdly pure about it both like the, like the music, you know, it's just people singing and the and the uh, like tonally, um, in terms of like what they're singing, like you know, music theory wise. Yeah. It's like very, like simple in a lot of ways. But the fact that it had this like direct connection to like God. Yeah. It's just so fascinating to me and like
01:16:42 I'm like, there's,
01:16:47 there's some, there's been so much like religious music for so long that even somebody like me who's been devoid of religion forever, like there's some weird connection. Yeah. To something like very internalized and somewhat ancient that like I just don't, I don't understand, you know? Yeah. No, I feel the same way. Or even like the, the sort of the madness of like rock and roll coming about in like the fifties and sixties and like the way it just made people flip the fuck out. Yeah. Like this be like that like came back to us from like some sort of just ancient thing that we just didn't and yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, it's really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fun. I don't understand that. Yeah. No, I know. I don't get it either. Just do it, the just do it. You have to understand it. I'm a
01:17:55 and. Okay. So a singing you started singing like around the same time that you're playing guitar. Yeah. And it was just like, I, I've always been like really self conscious about my voice. Yeah. So it was Kinda just, I like, I would sing for very few people. I'm sure it was like only that girlfriend that I had, you know, I wrote those songs too, you know. Um, so I was like singing then kind of. But then I had to, like when I started wanting to perform songs, obviously I had to push through that fear and I mean it was absolutely terrifying. But like singing in front of an audience, like into her phone and everything. And I'm um, so yeah, I, I really started singing probably early college but. Okay. And then I took some voice lessons there that really nice in college helped. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, those can be a mixed bag but when they're good, like there are certain things that are really. Yeah, really good to, to learn. Um,
01:19:07 I, have, I struggle with my relationship with my voice a lot, like a, I think most people do. Yeah, I think most people do too. Um, and like I studied, I studied folklore music at a community college for like a year and like something about it made me like even more scared of my own voice. Um, do you feel like, like how is your relationship with your own voice? Like how has that are like, are you scared of your voice? Do you ever feel like, uh, um, like you, you can't get anything out, you know what I mean? Like it's, so I feel like, so a fucking constraints sometime just by my own, like self
01:20:08 that it like is like a, like a fucking meltdown, you know what I mean? Yeah. Have you had anything like that or did you early on have like. Yeah, I mean I often, when I quit all the time just because I think still, yeah, I mean they have an adventure because really? Yeah, we had at the lines later that, I mean it was a great venue and everything but the sound at least that night was not great and I couldn't hear my guitar. I couldn't hear my voice. I could only pretty much hear drums and a little bit of the other guitar. Wow. And so from my perspective, everything sounded like absolute shit, right? You know, and I'm like, I'm like, I'm sure I'm singing off key. I can't hear anything. And just looking at the faces in the crowd and I'm like, dude, these people are like, like in their heads, they're like, oh my God, these guys are terrible, you know, like, when is this over?
01:21:02 And I'm like, ah, I should just, I just want to be done. I want it to be over. But what do you do? What do you do in that moment? Uh, I mean, I just push through it, I guess, you know, just keep on going because I mean, it helps, you know, when people tell you encourage and things obviously, you know, you're like, they're like, oh no, I'll do that. Sounded Great. Especially when it's like random people that have no totally no investment in a relationship with you, you know? So that kind of helps. But then, you know, I, I'm to the point in my life where I'm aware that a lot of the thoughts in my own head or bullshit, you know, and not real sure, you know, like it's not really what people are thinking and you're overthinking it because, you know, I mean, I don't know, I can't think of an example.
01:21:54 But if you're talking to somebody and you're like, well, I thought that you were thinking this, you know, and it's like some kind of disagreement and they're like, dude, I wasn't even like, I was really close to that. Yeah, totally. Like the first time that happens, you're like, oh man, maybe I should consider that. Maybe I'm just like, all this stuff is just made up in my head, you know, and everyone isn't out to judge you, you know? Right. So, yeah, I dunno, I just pushed through it mostly. But what kind words help for sure. Huh? Damn. Um, yeah, cause I think, um, I think you're a fantastic singer. Thank you. Know I, I've enjoyed your voice very much. I appreciate it. I think it's unique and like a and beautiful. Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think in some ways it's good and, and you probably are right that like most people would struggle with, with her voice and stuff, which was like, we shouldn't, you know. Um, but it's uh, I guess it's encouraging to hear. I mean, I, I wish you
01:23:06 didn't have that feeling about your voice, you know, but like in some ways it's an encouraging to hear that. Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. I think I heard Tom York say that about his own voice one time and I was like, oh my God. Totally. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, how do you like recording a cause? You guys, you guys have pretty interesting. I'm like tones and shit. Um, I don't remember if a, I'm making this up or not, but I feel like I saw maybe it was just like a fucking band camp tags or something that um, you know, like shoegaze. Yeah. And there's like a little bit of that kind of vibe. Um, you know, like reverse delays and shit. Um, and uh, you know, like, um, yeah, but like interesting tones and like I'm paying attention to all that shit, guitar pedals and um, so it, it seems like the recording and production, um, tonal aspect of like making a record is something that is interesting to you.
01:24:18 Yeah, I think, I mean that might come off more than it actually reflects reality because I feel like we're kind of just winging it most of the time, like we were when we record. It's so far. It's always been, we're all playing together. We're not live. Yeah. Okay. Do you want to click? Yeah. No, not to a click go. And we rarely do overdubs just unless there were like vocals live. No, that, that's okay because I can't do that because I'm playing guitar at the same time. And you can get away with that live, you know, you do a scratch take or not like when you're playing the guitar. Um, we have, we did on this on 1880 but we didn't on Echo Echo was unique because the guy who was doing it, I wanted to um, record it. And then I can't remember what exactly what he did, but some, for some reason it had to be all in one take and he couldn't do overdubs, which was kind of frustrating and bad.
01:25:20 But it turned out well, I think. Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah, I like recording it. It can be kind of a chore at of it. Yeah. But I mean, I, I, I enjoyed just not all the time. Sure. Yeah, sure. That's cool that you do it straight up life though. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's much easier in my mind if, if you're, if you can do it that way, I think you shouldn't. It feels it feels more genuine and just organic and it's, you don't have to. It takes much less time too. So it's way cheaper. Yeah. But yeah, it's good. It's like it's old school, like a um. Yeah, totally it. Uh, and, and it says something about your band, like a lot of bands can't do that. Yeah. And make it sound good, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So that's sweet. Um, but you guys are fucking around with like pedals and shit.
01:26:22 Yeah. Yeah. We have pedals for sure. Yeah. It's mostly, but I mean it's nothing crazy. It's like you're, you know, boss pedals, mostly delays and stuff, but, but you, you think about the, uh, what the different tonalities mean, I guess it seems like, you know, like a go, this song needs some kind of crunchy fuzzy base. Definitely, you know. Yeah, Yup. Yeah, yeah, we do definitely think about the tones for sure. Nice. Not just, you know, dry, clean guitar the whole time. We're just playing the same thing every time. We'd definitely like change it up based on the song and what it totally what we think it needs. Cool. Huh. Um, are you guys working on new stuff you. So 18, 88 came out. It came out this year pretty recently. Yeah, it was like within the last month actually I think July. No, July. Okay, cool.
01:27:19 Yeah. Yeah. So we have two new songs since then and we've been playing those on this tour. Um, but are you working up to another ap or record or something? Yeah, the, the goal is to make another record, not an EPA, like a full length, but um, we'll see what happens. I always get like that. My songwriting stuff goes in spurts kind of. So I sort of like banged out those two songs pretty quickly. And Are you, are you doing all of the initial songwriting? Uh, yeah, most of it. I usually like I'll have like a riff for um, a progression or something and um, usually some sparse lyrics or melodies or something and they'll just bring it to the band and we'll just jam on it for awhile and. Oh cool. You guys improvise what happens? Yeah. Cool. Yeah, I mean like they all write their own parts like.
01:28:10 Yeah, yeah. Like, I mean Andrew and Dane both do things that I could never do. What are they playing? Andrew plays drums in Dane plays guitar. Okay. Um, so I, I mean I could never tell them what to play or anything like so nice. Just kind of like, which is nice and I feel like a much better environment than my previous thing with dress the full. Yeah, collaboration is awesome. It is cool. I was scared of it at first, but yeah. Yeah. Like um, songs become like your babies. Yes. It's hard to let go. What if I don't like it? You know, what if I don't like it? Oh yeah, yeah, totally. It's my son, uh, when there's, when there's shit like that that you guys don't agree on, like how do you deal with that? Um, what we usually despite. Yeah. Yeah, fight to the death.
01:29:03 We usually, I mean we try usually to defer to the person playing the instrument, but. Oh, interesting. Okay. But in some circumstances, like if it's something like that's a big difference or a big change will usually just have like a, just a band vote, you know, and just leave it, leave it up to how the people vote, you know, and live with it. So yeah, I think that sort of a, in both of those senses of deferring to the car, like the instrumentalist, like that sort of democratic approach is, is good I think. Yeah, I think so too. It's always a,
01:29:45 it's pretty fascinating to see the way abandoned dynamics work like that. Like I've heard of some, some bands being like, if it's not a consensus, if we don't unanimously agree, it's out. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I don't think that's really constructive. It seems hard as fuck. Yeah. Yeah. I mean maybe it can be good. Yeah. Like, but it seems really fucking difficult. Yeah. I mean there's an upside obviously. Then everyone's always on the same page and you're never like. But it's also for the people who get left out over and over again. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. It creates. It can create a bad blood for sure. Huh? Yeah. Well that's cool. I uh, uh, it's been a while since I've played in a band with people and uh, that kind of collaboration is like,
01:30:31 that's fucking sweet. It is fun. It's really fun when like things just like grow organically. You totally, totally. It's really cool. Yeah. The surprise element is really sweet. Yeah. Nice. Um,
01:30:47 oh yeah, yeah. I was gonna ask. So what's the, what's the story behind the like, um, the, uh, the title and like album artwork of 1880. Oh, well, uh, one of Andrew the drummer
01:31:00 friends. Um, there's this, I can't remember exactly where it is, but it's in the Minneapolis area, there's this, that the thing that's on the cover is like a, a flood line from a flood that happened in 1880 apparently. Nice. So she was just hiking around and she saw that and it's like a big flood in posts and she took a picture of it and sent it to Andrew and he's like, dude, this is awesome. And we're like, dude, let's make that album cover. And then we just call it 1880 [inaudible] it was right there. It doesn't mean anything like that. So
01:31:35 I was kind of figuring this raw would be something like that. I mean you already had the band name way previous. Yeah,
01:31:40 yeah, yeah. No, it's really cool. We also have like, sweet. It's, this band is definitely really fun because we're, we don't take ourselves very seriously like that. That song, earl, it started out as, it started out nameless and then Andrew said parts of it reminded him of a block party. So we started calling it block party song and then like the band black party. Yeah. Yeah. Like internally we call them and then then we abbreviated it to bp and then, and then we started calling it bp oil spill and then like, we always do stupid accent. So I think it was, it was either me or andrew or like oral oral spill and so we just called it earl. It was just really good for you.
01:32:29 Yeah. Yeah. Talking about things changing organically. Like that's. Yup. Yup. Um, uh, you, you write like all the lyrics or no? Yeah. Yeah. Do Your bandmates make funny earlier x? No they haven't yet.
01:32:47 You are a lucky. I know, I know. Well, I mean they have some, I mean not like really make making fun, like just kind of poking, you know, like in alternative facts. Okay. The last lyric is um, uh, we all get tossed into histories. Have recycle bins. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And Danes are always like, Oh God, there's been singing a voter recycling again, which is just like little harmless stuff. Like
01:33:14 I think like, yeah, like, mean or anything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean yeah. I'm thinking about my later experience. Uh, we, uh, bands I've been in, we've been very, like, I'm not in, not in a mean way, but like, just completely changing the lyrics of like another person's like song. Yeah, just to completely fuck with it because like it when you're playing in a band and like it gets stuck in your head all the time. Yeah. Not Dan, just like slowly changing things to be like just parodies of itself. Yeah. Nice. Um, uh, what w, what made you write that song? Alternative facts? Uh, I kind of wanted to, well I wrote it somewhat soon after the election. I really, I wanted to, I was angry. Yeah. Uh, so I was kind of in like that political mood and I'm pissed off so I started trying to kind of write a political song and it kind of, it doesn't stay political for the entire thing. But um, then I was, I don't know, I, I heard that quote from Kellyanne Conway and that just sent me through the roof. So not to call it that, you know, cause it's Kinda like that, you know, weird, 19, 84 ish. Totally hold that. We're subtly apparently you living in now, so yeah, whatever the fuck it is that we're living in a, um,
01:34:59 do, do you even if it's like loosely, do you see music or art or the way that you interact with your own artwork as, as political? Um. Or is it just like another, another thing that you expressed sometimes? Yeah, I think it's the latter. Yeah. Like every once in a while it will come out, but it's not, that's not my main goal. Sure. To get political. It's just true. It's more about just like I said before, just making something that makes people feel things, you know, that's. Yeah. Yeah. And this Orwellian world is definitely a, a big feeling right now. Definitely is. And I mean that song is not definitely does not bring any comfort I wouldn't think. But that can be good though. Sometimes a comfort is like fuck off. I don't want comfort right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Um, so, so floods, uh, what's in, what's in your future? Um, well tonight we're going to play it. Cool.
01:36:20 Otherwise, yeah. I don't know. I mean, we're just trying to keep playing music, so we're going to keep writing songs, try to make a new album sometime within the next year or so and I don't know, we all just like plain and we're just kind of just seeing where it goes and what happens is, you know, nice, no expectations really just are happy to be able to play in front of people and have people want to listen to it, you know. Cool. Using a one year, one year, one of your weeks of a couple of weeks of vacation. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. To go to her. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun because, I mean this is my first tour and Danes first tour. Nice. I think Andrew had been on tour before, but um, it's been the best. Cool. It's been mostly like a good experience. Oh, it's been great.
01:37:11 Dynamic is great. The three of us, we haven't had any issues or anything. It's been really no to her horror stories. Nope. Good. Yeah, it's been pretty great. I mean minus the show, getting canceled in Seattle, that's the biggest thing. So or driving all night. Yeah, I mean there's a lot of driving. Yeah. But. Cool. Are you, are you thinking ahead planning, planning another one or. We haven't thought about it yet, but I mean ideally like in the beginning we debated whether we wanted to go to the west coast or east coast. Um, I think if we do it again we'll try to go to the west coast or east because we did the whole west coast this time minus California. Um, but yeah, maybe maybe next summer we'll see where
01:37:56 we are, you know. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, it's fun ship. It's hard, but it's fun. Yeah. Yeah. Is really fun. It's like a one of the, one of the best, like modern day adventures. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Cool. Um, well what, is there anything that I should have asked you that I didn't ask you or any, any, anything like that? Um,
01:38:29 I don't know. I can't really think of anything. This wind, it wind directions that I didn't think it was going to, but it was really good and I, I was, I was nervous about like being able to talk for however long. We've talked, like an hour, maybe an hour, isn't it? It's like, it's almost nine, isn't it? Yeah. Eight 53. I should probably play a 10. 10. Cool. Yeah. But um, yeah, no, I mean I can't really think of anything. Cool. It was really great though to talk to you. Yeah. Thank you very much for coming in and hanging out in this a weird hotel room. Yeah. So bad up against the window. I mean this is a nice hotel room though, at least I know. Yeah. I mean if it was like this and it's like, you know, some kind of shady motel then it might be a different vibe, but it might be a cool vibe.
01:39:19 Yeah. No, I went for the, the sort of Bougie, upscale hotel room. But yeah. Thank you very much. This was super fun. Yeah. And uh, if you're back next year, I'm looking forward to seeing you again and I was supposed to have somebody, uh, come actually like right now, but she had to reschedule so I think I'm going to come see you play. Cool. Great. I'm stuck. Where are you? Are you playing 62 doors are at old Chicago club? Sixty two. Cool. Me Too. So when you play tomorrow, we got a no tonight. 11 30 I think. Oh cool. So you play. Yeah, it's going to be some drum machine. Uh, so are you ready to dance? Yeah, I'll be ready to dance by. Cool. All right, well this was awesome. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you.